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Dec 02, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43
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#141 | ||||
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
2. I "typed all that" to help you understand why that ranger build sucks and what might be done to improve it or replace it with something better. Apparently you aren't interested in improving, so it was wasted effort. Quote:
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2. Negative posts are more useful. You can learn from a negative post -- "this build sucks and here's why." Positive posts are rarely more than "I like this +1." |
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Dec 02, 2009, 09:41 PM // 21:41
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#142 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Guild: LHV
Profession: R/N
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Quote:
- Gimmick build - Build that clearly states he/she knows -3 about rangers. It didnt happen to me when playing W , A , N or even Rt .... but happened to me when playing R and Mes .... huh , how curious . 
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Dec 03, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46
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#143 | ||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: [DVDF] Gp
Profession: Me/A
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In regards to the underlying topic it is true BUT...and its a BIG but... (please dont take offense, as this IS a valid point! and in no way intended as a flame! or directed personally. but is directed generally " If you ask a question on any topic in a recognised Area, would you not expect the answer giving the BEST answer? or an answer giving the "its ok and will make you laugh a bit?" "not best optimal Damage build can be good and fun to play" "not best optimal Damage build can be good and fun to play" people need to make clean the difference between OPTIMAL! (been the best a class or whatever can DO!" and what is passable (what a class can do but isnt by any means the best at!" as a lot of people here will take ANYTHING as gospel thats posted on guru, same as pvx, and not question it...(espeically if they have less than no clue at all. and cant back it up!) FUN =/= effective OR optimal all the time! (sadly very rarely it is the most fun  )This point need putting across! ..next point  As tbh, a ranger is never goin to be the best damage dealer, the best healer ect in THIS meta! it may be good at it, but will always be beaten by what ever margin by another class, other than the application of a heavy daze! and Disruption. And so far no one has effectivley argued (and proved!) that any other class can do this job better! or that a ranger can another job better than any other class! The main point is that, a ranger might be able to deal better damage than it can disrupt(on a single skill bar situation), but in the grand scheme almost anyone else can deal more, BUT when it comes to applying daze/disruption. no one does it better, hence....if you want a damage dealer..you take someone else! f you want daze spam, you take a ranger! in the rare case you need it... This is ofc for an optimal situation, where your trying (even if failing ) to build a more than mediocre/semi competent team!TLDR: o one applies daze better than a ranger...if your goin for max efficiency THAT is the job (as rangers are NOT the top DD in gw ect)...otherwise, do what you want no one cares! but for efficiency......game over! But damn right a crap bar can be fun to play, but have no delusions playing it or advocating it! Quote:
Last edited by maxxfury; Dec 03, 2009 at 03:09 AM // 03:09.. Reason: fixed a broken quote :D |
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Dec 03, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17
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#144 | ||||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Guild: LHV
Profession: R/N
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Quote:
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Fun is subjective unlike optimal but good isnt. Some ppl will always call a build that can be a 8/10 subpar , suboptimal , not worth for not being the best and all negative bla bla adjectives they can think of but hell ...... its still a 8/10 , its a good build. Quote:
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Dec 03, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34
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#145 | |||
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: [IG]
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Fun and Shit. GTFO Fun and Efficient . Come on in Fun and optimal . Still searching for this mysterious beast  Quote:
Only time i ever run daze on my ranger is if someone insists on it. Its a suckass boring build to play. My R/P is playing around with Stunning strike which seems as if it could be more effective than BHA
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Dec 04, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24
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#146 | ||
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Profession: R/
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Quote:
This has nothing to do with this thread. Also, are you saying the low level cap is bad? Quote:
@ Everyone - An entire profession shouldn't be limited to being "good enough." - Everything the ranger is good at is useless in PvE. - Why does everyone think interrupting is good in PvE? It's not. - Dazing isn't good on a ranger because it can be done better by a caster bringing Technobabble. Technobabble is AoE and recharges fairly quickly while BHA is expensive, single target, has a long recharge, and ocassionally misses. |
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Dec 04, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36
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#147 | ||
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
First, a nitpick: build quality isn't linear like a 1-to-10 system would imply; it's a stairstep function. Either a build is good enough to do X or do Y or do Z or it isn't. Increases are linear in between however. (An example might help illustrate that: If I want someone who can solo gank a Keeper of Souls in HM, what matters most is whether you can do it or not. Certainly some builds can gank the Keeper in 3 seconds while others take 4, or what have you; but those differences are much less important than the difference between the worst build that can successfully gank and the best build that can't.) Now for the main point: Rangers don't have builds that are 8 or 9/10 at anything. They are 10/10 at dazed (for as much as that's worth) and in the 4 to 6/10 range, or worse, at everything else. If rangers had, for instance, a damage build that was 8/10, I'd say "Use this build. It's not as good as a sin or warrior can be, but it's good enough." But they don't. They don't even come close. Hence my position in this thread. Quote:
I've gone over earlier in this thread the advantages of BHA over technobabble. PI is, except for certain final-boss bosses (Great Lava Turkey and Isuldur come to mind), a terrible skill. Like Moloch says, it's a reactive hex in the worst sense. Stunning Strike requires closing to spear range and getting a condition on the target first, either of which alone is going to cost enough time that the target is going to have time to act. StunStrike is OK for killing monks I guess, but not so useful at preempting major casters. |
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Dec 04, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15
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#148 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spain
Guild: LHV
Profession: R/N
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Quote:
-Not really , if it was so , Rangers would have a bloody hard time to do anything in PvE and they would do it in 2-3X more time than the rest ( wich doesnt happen ). -It is. Interrupting is a lot of things , not only D-shot and savage . KDs lock , dazing is also an interrupt. Now go ahead and tell the AP-caller+Discordway lovers that half of the effect of 2 skills from their static bar is useless. -It isnt , its more like a measure to see who knows a sht about rangers and who dont. When daze is ULTRANEEDED for a BOSS is "not bad" to have it , otherwise Techbabble >>>>>>>>> BHA . Not to mention how stupid it is to bring a BHA ranger instead equip 1 PvE skill when you have the option to do so.
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Dec 04, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02
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#149 | ||||
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Profession: R/
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Dec 04, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33
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#150 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jun 2006
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barrage and bha are the only builds i can really think of in general pve where rangers actually play their own class. other than that spirit spam or some kind of nature spirit support.
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Dec 09, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43
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#151 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Nov 2006
Profession: R/
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Boost a ranger?
Barrage don't remove preparation. |
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Dec 09, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19
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#152 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush
Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]
Profession: N/
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Dec 10, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39
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#153 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gwen's underwear drawer
Guild: The Curry Kings
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Sure if you want a one-trick, one build cookie cutter profession then go play something else. Otherwise please stop talking complete and utter tripe. The more I read this thread, the more I see lame contributions from noob and 1337 contributors the more I wonder a) what game are you playing? and b) have you even played through as a Ranger primary... quickly followed by c) these guys spend way to much time using PvXWiki for their builds.  About time a mod locked this thread coz it's just laughable. |
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Dec 10, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52
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#154 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area
Guild: none
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Ill give a quick example Say I have an orders necro with dark fury order of pain and GDW on the team as well as EBSoH somehwere in the party (which isn't at all uncommon) with barrage on my ranger I am doing incredible amounts of AoE damage and preventing tons of damage through spammed knock downs. Not to mention barrage is great for building adrenaline On this same bar I can take savage and distracting shot, despite what anyone says almost every single team can benefit from interrupts wurm bile, meteor shower, giant stomp are all very catchable and devastating to the team, interrupting in HM is hard but the enemies still fallow a easy to pick up pattern making the shut down of key skills (woh, b surge) happen more often than one might think. Don't forget that these are both 1/2 activation skills making them good for spiking (especially with your GDW and orders damage) and building adrenaline. Two very versatile non elite skills that can easily be fit onto most any bow skill bar. For my fourth skill I would probably take tipple shot for a nearly guaranteed kd, immense single target damage, and as usual adrenaline building. Can be combod with savage to bring most single enemies near death instantly. The rest of my skill bar is much more determined by what my team is not already offering. If SY is needed a ranger can spam it easily with good adren building skills and the usual presence of dark fury (FGJ is a fine choice if dark fury isnt present). If I cant find people grouped close enough together to build adren with barrage then I probably don't need SY to begin with, although triple shot is always there as a back up if SY is crucial. EBSoH, pure was li ming, some for of resurrection, splinter, and many other skills are all viable and due to rangers having expertise for about half the bar atleast 3 pips of energy regen is actually a very workable amount for the skills you would be using. If SY and the other skills mentioned above are in use a pet should not be underestimated. Pets provide more single target dps (which only adds to the versatility of the barrage build), a frontline target that doesnt really matter if it dies which prevents damage to the team and gives a good candidate for death nova if its present. The pet is also another attacker making barbs, MoP, and gfte that much more effective. The pet can use skills like brutal strike to supplement damage, scavengers for energy, etc. The skeleton for a skillbar I gave above does an incredible amount of tasks very well (not close to mediocre). When comparing the effectiveness of this to other classes keep in mind one inherent advantage of the ranger- its range. A rangers straight dps to the master of damage may not be as high but keep in mind as a ranger you wont have to chase your enemies, you wont get body blocked, you can switch targets much easier. You may not be able to make the enemies mob up as easily (although I've done some great things with pets) but if enemies to become mobbed up a ranger will be able to seize the opportunity much better than a warrior or assassin. In terms of pure DPS spear builds with enraged lunge can be made that do DPS that often actually does damage that compares fine with the other classes but from a distance and with 2 targets instead of one applying the damage. Rangers have a lot more builds than this too but they are often fairly area or team specific (BHA, Infuriating Heat) but this doesn't make them useless at all it just means you will be changing skill bars a lot. With their capabilities of running a wide variety of support skills and good damage through a versatile primary weapon rangers are among the most useful classes in the game. They are pretty useless in a tank n spank type group outside of maybe spirits or traps but I never play that format anyway and why on earth someone would make a ranger if they wanted to play like that I'm not sure. |
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Dec 10, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39
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#155 | |||
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2009
Profession: R/
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Quote:
When you do things correctly, things should be dying very quickly in PvE. Therefore, long-lasting degen conditions such as Bleeding, Poison, and Disease are quite ineffective. Burning is okay seeing as it does more damage in a smaller amount of time. But, it's still not good for rangers (BA and IA are bad PvE elites). Cripple is bad because, once again, things should be dying fast enough that crippling them to save your backline is unnecessary. Blind, Weakness, Deep Wound, Cracked Armor, and Dazed are good. But, Blind, Cracked Armor, and Weakness can't be spread on a ranger effectively; DW can only be spread with EL or WS spamming (meh); and the downsides of BHA have been explained numerous times. Why interrupts are bad in PvE: Why dedicate a valuable party member slot to an interrupter that occassionaly prevents damage/heals when you could just get another class to just kill the damn thing? And in HM, skills with casting times of 1 sec or less become much harder or impossible to consistently interrupt by reflex. Unless you have single-digit ping (which you don't), inhuman reflexes (which you don't), and are standing in melee range (which you shouldn't be), you won't be able to interrupt effectively. And even if you had/did all those things, interrupting still wouldn't be as effective as quickly killing in most situations. Stop insisting these things have a place in PvE. Quote:
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Dec 11, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56
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#156 | |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bay Area
Guild: none
Profession: R/
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Quote:
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Dec 11, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25
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#157 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: [IG]
Profession: R/
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Quote:
I use degen skills but only where the degen is a secondary bonus - Blazing Spear , Enraged lunge etc to give an example - but would not run a build built round it. Same for interupts, any bow build im using will generally have just the 1. If i want a full on interupt build then ill just take a mesmer hero and let them handle it. I do run the odd damage build with my bow but its subpar by a large margin to other weapon builds i can run using secondary /P/W/D or /A. |
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Dec 13, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51
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#158 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Mar 2008
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
I wouldn't say rangers are worthless, but another player who can help buff or add effects to their hits (GDW, SoH, MoP, etc.) is preferred. Their spirits can be used by other professions, but they're still very useful if a player knows to take advantage of them for an area or group. Sadly haven't come across many good rangers. |
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Dec 14, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05
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#159 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Oct 2009
Guild: Warriors Of The Flaming Fist [WFF]
Profession: Me/
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I can't remember who posted about the 'general PvE team setup', but it was something like:
Tank MM [blank] [blank] SoS Rit Nuker Monk Monk The way I see it is this; if those 2 blanks were to be filled with "better classes at doing damage than a ranger" (such as wars/sins, whatever) that means more pressure on the monks. A ranger can sit in the back and do a decent amount of damage (or whatever you want them to do, again) without causing unneccessary pressure on the healers. If I were running the above setup, I would fill the blanks with a ranger and a mesmer/another necro. |
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